Northern Isles (Scotland)

Discussions on flags used in Europe.
User avatar
Leonardo Piccioni
Member
Posts: 496
Joined: 11 Apr 2012 03:18
Location: São Paulo, Brazil

Northern Isles (Scotland)

Postby Leonardo Piccioni » 28 Jun 2012 17:38

According to http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/scotland-blog/2012/mar/19/islanders-threaten-salmond-independence-plans, if Scotland win the independence plebiscite in 2014, maybe Orkney and Shetland would want to continue in Union or to be independent. Thinking on this two hypothesis (I'm not positioning politically), I want to know how their flag should look like.

The obvious suggestion, but not the ideal, for me, is a United Kingdom-like miscellaneous flag:
ilhas-setentrionais1.png


I think a more interesting flag would be based on the ancient "Lord of the Isles" arms (as it's represented in Prince of Wales banner and coat of arms in Scotland). The 1:2 proportion is only speculative:
ilhas-setentrionais.png


Is there an ancient Nordic symbol, or other thing else, that would be used in this case?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Visit my blogs about flags: Create/Recreate - Flags, etc. | Flag Review |Flags of U.S. States.
Visit the Vexillology Wiki, an initiative to propagate American and Canadian flag proposals.

CydonianWaffle
Member
Posts: 2
Joined: 28 Jun 2012 23:18

Re: Northern Isles (Scotland)

Postby CydonianWaffle » 28 Jun 2012 23:43

Firstly, I'd like to make it known to everyone reading this that I am of the opinion that this proposal by the Earl of Caithness is rather ridiculous, in fact, a complete non-story.

However. I am not adverse to the idea of creating flags for the Scottish areas and regions currently without.
Your combination of the currently recognized flags of Shetland and Orkney intrigues me although in this particular situation I prefer the separate flags for the two islands.

User avatar
Leonardo Piccioni
Member
Posts: 496
Joined: 11 Apr 2012 03:18
Location: São Paulo, Brazil

Re: Northern Isles (Scotland)

Postby Leonardo Piccioni » 30 Jun 2012 00:32

It'll be long.
1. Firstly, it's not the Earl of Caithness. Am I wrong, or his arms has a blue background? It's from Kingdom of Isles, a medieval vessel kingdom to Norway.
2. However, I'm wrong to say this is the correct case, because this kingdom was composed by Hebrides, Clyde and Man, but not Orkney or Shetland, although they're also over Nordic domination. I'm sorry about my early misknowledge about this fact.
3. In other hand, there were a Norwegian "Earl of Orkney" that comprised both Orkney and Shetland. His flag is the same of a previous unofficial Orkney flag:

Image
Visit my blogs about flags: Create/Recreate - Flags, etc. | Flag Review |Flags of U.S. States.
Visit the Vexillology Wiki, an initiative to propagate American and Canadian flag proposals.

User avatar
Sammy
Member
Posts: 257
Joined: 26 Apr 2012 20:47
Location: Londonderry. (N.I) United Kingdom

Re: Northern Isles (Scotland)

Postby Sammy » 01 Jul 2012 20:46

I beleive that the Orkney and Shetland Islands already have their own regional/island flag both based on Scandinavian crosses (as they are as much Viking as they are Scottish. Top is the current flag of Shetland, middle is the current Flag of Orkney (or so I am told by the internet). For the United Kingdom Scottish Islands/UK Northern Isles or the Independent Northern Isles in the event of Scottish independence I combined them (bottom)
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Sammy
Member
Posts: 257
Joined: 26 Apr 2012 20:47
Location: Londonderry. (N.I) United Kingdom

Re: Northern Isles (Scotland)

Postby Sammy » 01 Jul 2012 20:53

based on the Scandinavian cross design I added a union flag in the canton for ships from the islands to use. I also made a saltire version defaced with the ship from the Lord of the Isles coat of arms. If they remained in the UK they might also be topped with a crown. I have used the Scottish crown, but as the SNP is keeping the Royals I assume that this might be used as the crown of Scotland so if the Scots crown is inappropriate for whatever reason the state crown of England, Wales and Northern Ireland could be used
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Leonardo Piccioni
Member
Posts: 496
Joined: 11 Apr 2012 03:18
Location: São Paulo, Brazil

Re: Northern Isles (Scotland)

Postby Leonardo Piccioni » 02 Jul 2012 01:54

I liked Sammy's proposal about put Orkney flag on Shetland flag (I don't know about the existence of a technical term for it), but I think it would became a whole lot simple and better if the Shetland flag was put on Orkney flag. The blue shade I used is a half-half ratio between Shetland's and Orkney's blues.

ilhas-setentrionais2.png

Other comments about Sammy's proposals:
1. It's important to notice that, in some hypothetical cases, a Scottish flag in canton should be better than Union Flag.
2. I'm no more using the Lord of the Isles arms, by the reason mentioned in my last post.
3. To stay in United Kingdom doesn't mean necessarily that you want the British Crown to rule over you. There's a lot of economical, political and military reasons to it, for example. No crown, please.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Visit my blogs about flags: Create/Recreate - Flags, etc. | Flag Review |Flags of U.S. States.
Visit the Vexillology Wiki, an initiative to propagate American and Canadian flag proposals.

User avatar
Sammy
Member
Posts: 257
Joined: 26 Apr 2012 20:47
Location: Londonderry. (N.I) United Kingdom

Re: Northern Isles (Scotland)

Postby Sammy » 02 Jul 2012 20:03

Leonardo Piccioni wrote:I liked Sammy's proposal about put Orkney flag on Shetland flag (I don't know about the existence of a technical term for it), but I think it would became a whole lot simple and better if the Shetland flag was put on Orkney flag. The blue shade I used is a half-half ratio between Shetland's and Orkney's blues.

ilhas-setentrionais2.png

Other comments about Sammy's proposals:
1. It's important to notice that, in some hypothetical cases, a Scottish flag in canton should be better than Union Flag.
2. I'm no more using the Lord of the Isles arms, by the reason mentioned in my last post.
3. To stay in United Kingdom doesn't mean necessarily that you want the British Crown to rule over you. There's a lot of economical, political and military reasons to it, for example. No crown, please.


I have to say your version with the Orkney flag on Shetland looks far better than mine. As for the Scottish flag in the canton I considered this but thought it might be inappropriate if (mainland) Scotland left the union but I see your point although a defaced saltire might be OK as for the crown well I used the Scottish version but absolutely agree with you, that along with the Union flag in the canton were only experiments. I also skipped over the Lord of the Isles bit you said, does anyone know if there any other Northern Isles symbols that could be used along with the Saltire?

User avatar
Leonardo Piccioni
Member
Posts: 496
Joined: 11 Apr 2012 03:18
Location: São Paulo, Brazil

Re: Northern Isles (Scotland)

Postby Leonardo Piccioni » 02 Jul 2012 21:59

Sammy wrote:I have to say your version with the Orkney flag on Shetland looks far better than mine.

Thank you, but I sincerely think your version is also good.

Sammy wrote:I see your point although a defaced saltire might be OK (...) I also skipped over the Lord of the Isles bit you said, does anyone know if there any other Northern Isles symbols that could be used along with the Saltire?

OK, I understand you, but what should we use? A raven banner? No, I think we shouldn't, but the important is the fun, isn't it?

Image

Maybe some relevant Pictish symbols, but I don't know nobody understand them, do you? This very interesting site may have something interesting: http://www.orkneyjar.com/history
Visit my blogs about flags: Create/Recreate - Flags, etc. | Flag Review |Flags of U.S. States.
Visit the Vexillology Wiki, an initiative to propagate American and Canadian flag proposals.

User avatar
Sammy
Member
Posts: 257
Joined: 26 Apr 2012 20:47
Location: Londonderry. (N.I) United Kingdom

Re: Northern Isles (Scotland)

Postby Sammy » 04 Jul 2012 21:48

some possible symbols that can be used to replace the Lord of the Isles boat. First is a shield Knot used in both Celtic and Ancient Norse cultures. Second is a Pictish Cross, however I would be cautious about using anything exclusively Pictish, Celtic, Gael or Norse. I believe the islands were inhabited by the Picts before the Vikings settled, reading up on folklore and traditions of the Orkney and Shetland Islands I am led to believe they have more of a mixed Norse and Scottish heritage, so last I think a design like an ancient Brooch would possibly be the best. As this shape was found on clothing of Celt, gales,Picts and Vikings that way every possible identity/background is represented and as a bonus it is also the most simple.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Leonardo Piccioni
Member
Posts: 496
Joined: 11 Apr 2012 03:18
Location: São Paulo, Brazil

Re: Northern Isles (Scotland)

Postby Leonardo Piccioni » 04 Jul 2012 23:22

The brooch has a problem: it's neutral, it's simple, but not exactly the most beautiful thing. It's low geometrical. I like the knot, it's perfect to a flag, but very similar to Canterbury cross. I'll try not to use it. I'm almost in love with this pictish cross, I'd like to work with it, but I view your point. I tried to put it on a Nordic cross, to turn it more neutral, but it didn't worked well.
I haven't a firm position about them. What do you suggest?

One more thing: it's still obviously Scottish. Why not use something like an inverted St. Andrew's cross, as used in Nova Scotia (Canada) or by Russian navy?
Visit my blogs about flags: Create/Recreate - Flags, etc. | Flag Review |Flags of U.S. States.
Visit the Vexillology Wiki, an initiative to propagate American and Canadian flag proposals.


Return to “Europe”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot] and 0 guests